[00:00:00.00] [MUSIC PLAYING]
[00:00:04.79] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Welcome to the Insurance Technology Podcast. I am not your host, Reid Holzworth, because in this episode, he's in the hot seat and answering questions. But Reid, how's your summer been going?
[00:00:19.94] REID HOLZWORTH: Summer has been good. Been really good. I'm down here at Casa Bamboo, Key West hanging out. Yeah, started off the summer really fun. I hosted a spearfishing tournament with four of my best friends in the world. And it was awesome. We had such a good time.
[00:00:42.59] One of my friends, industry person, works for a large company, starts with A. I'm not going to say any more than that. Lost, left a day early because he couldn't handle it anymore, literally. But we'll all see him around at events. He'll be paying for it. But yeah, no, it was super fun.
[00:01:01.91] But yeah, I've been down in Keys now for a little bit. I've been traveling all over doing a lot of just work stuff, a lot of customer meetings, on site, stuff like that. I've been to the insurance capitals of the world. Hartford, and you know where, the good old Ohio, all over. And so it's been a really busy summer. It's crazy. It's just flown by. It's super flown by.
[00:01:26.44] But I'm actually down here now. My kids were all down here for a few days. That is not a vacation for those that have kids, but it was awesome. They had a great time. We spent a lot of time in the water, on the boat.
[00:01:38.31] And now everybody's left, and my house is good order. Now I'm just taking it easy. Working, and went out on the boat this morning actually. Actually went out for sunrise. It was awesome. Went and dove this great spot. So enjoying life, living the dream, I guess.
[00:01:54.72] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah. I know. Everybody's-- this summer definitely flew by. And I think with our event being a month earlier than usual, this summer definitely felt like it was busier than usual as well.
[00:02:10.05] REID HOLZWORTH: It's real busy. Real busy. Yeah. Yeah. It has been flowing by. And it's crazy, it's already that time. It's like I'm glad I'm down here getting a tan and losing weight, because it's like, conference season, here we go.
[00:02:24.42] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah.
[00:02:25.72] REID HOLZWORTH: Holy moly, we got a lot going on with that.
[00:02:28.75] CHRISTEN KELLEY: So let's talk about some of the events, because I think that we've added some, but. So obviously we're starting off in September with our Ivans Connect event, which is right with Applied Net. Do you see this one being any different than last year? Last year was the first time you really got on stage and had a keynote as CEO of Ivans Connect. But is there anything you're thinking is going to be different or looking forward to this year?
[00:02:53.67] REID HOLZWORTH: I don't know about different. But there is a lot more content. It is a different event. I think last year we kind of brought it back. And it was a hit. People loved it. I'm not just saying that, people really did. And it was really good, really impactful. A lot of great connections were made across the board.
[00:03:14.53] And so this year, it's just doubling down on that. It's going to be-- it's going to be awesome. Awesome. We're in Nashville again. I love Nashville. That's my scene more so than Vegas. And so I'm super excited about that.
[00:03:28.60] We got Lady A at the Grand Ole Opry. And so I'll be front row cutting a rug just like last year or two years ago we were in Nashville. You all see me there. But yeah, it's going to be super fun. A lot of great stuff we're going to get into too, some of the stuff that people are wondering about out in the industry. Like what does the Planck acquisition mean for broader Applied as well as Ivans specifically?
[00:03:55.95] So yeah, Elad and his team is going to be up on stage. They're going to be talking about that. And yeah, we're going to bring on-- I'm doing the keynote coming in of course. And I'm bringing old Graham Blackwell, our now President of Applied. He's going to come on and say some few words about all the stuff we've been up to at Applied generally.
[00:04:18.00] And yeah, Cathy's going to-- Cathy Rock, who runs product, she's going to deep dive, get into-- like really double click, I guess I'll put it into, our roadmap, everything we're working on, what's really going on.
[00:04:32.20] I feel like-- and I know I'm kind of going on a rant here, but I feel like the difference between last year and this year, thinking through it, is last year was more of like a review of everything we've done over the last, whatever, four years or so, three, four years, right? And all the change and everything up until that point even and more of the past.
[00:04:54.06] And now this is definitely-- we're not going to get into any of the past stuff. Now it's, what are we doing for the future? Which is very different. But yeah, it's cool. I love that event. I loved it last year. For me personally, I just love all the people. I love seeing all these friends and family, if you will. And it's such a good time. We just have such a great time.
[00:05:20.99] And then Applied Net is like, fuck all of you. I don't care what you say. It is the best event out there in the industry right now. Like, sorry, but it is. Just it is a lot of fun. The energy of just everybody. And it's just good stuff. So I'm excited about all of it. I really am.
[00:05:41.03] I'm not excited to travel and get back out on the road. Like I'd love to be hanging out down here in the Keys a little longer, but like, hey, it's good stuff. And then it doesn't stop there. We keep going. But before we go there, what do you think? You're running Ivans Connect, Kristen. Like what's-- you tell me.
[00:05:58.69] CHRISTEN KELLEY: You give me a little bit more credit than-- I definitely have a million people helping to do this. But I think, honestly, the feedback that we got from last year, I agree with you, people were like, this is-- we're the cool kids hang out. It was about having--
[00:06:16.59] REID HOLZWORTH: That's literally what people said.
[00:06:18.04] CHRISTEN KELLEY: --conversations. It wasn't about what to click and what to type. And it wasn't like that kind of an education, which when I first came to Ivans, that was-- we did that more like user group type of event. Now it's really about getting the right people in the room to talk through things.
[00:06:37.08] I think the two things I'm excited about this year that are different from last year is we made a concerted effort to bring the product manager-- the head of product back and talk about Ivan specifically. We purposefully didn't talk product last year because we wanted it to be more about bringing the industry together. But we got a lot of exciting things to talk about. So it makes sense to bring product and Cathy to the main stage.
[00:06:59.93] And then bringing Act to kind of close it out. So talking to Chris Klein. And you guys just did a webinar together.
[00:07:08.71] REID HOLZWORTH: He's such a good [INAUDIBLE]. He's a good dude. He really is. Yeah, I love him.
[00:07:11.85] CHRISTEN KELLEY: But bringing us and Act together, I think the mission is very similar in terms of let's help the industry to utilize technology in a way that is bringing people together for better relationships, better companies, things like that.
[00:07:28.25] And I'm really excited about the way that they're doing it in trying to, let's think of some common things that we should be working on together, and then work on them. No matter what technology you're using or who your friends and family are, we're coming together to solve some problems that can help everyone.
[00:07:49.17] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, absolutely. No, it's going to be exciting. I'm so glad they're joining us as well. It's going to be fun. For sure. Again, bringing more people. It makes sense. A lot of those people are already there for it, right? So that's going to be-- it's going to be great.
[00:08:03.64] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah. And then more-- so the AUGIE Group will be the day before. We have Act kind of closing out Ivans Connect. So again, just kind of bringing all of these industry associations that are focused on helping agents and carriers use technology. And yeah, it'll be a good way to kick off a week in Nashville.
[00:08:21.05] REID HOLZWORTH: Absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:08:23.19] CHRISTEN KELLEY: So like you said, it's the first of many. And I kind of feel bad because I feel like I'm adding more and more to your calendar. But almost immediately after Ivans Connect, you will be going to visit your boy, as you like to say, Jason Cass, at his Indietech event. It's the second--
[00:08:43.04] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, yeah. When is that? It's right after it?
[00:08:45.90] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah, it's the last week of September.
[00:08:48.84] REID HOLZWORTH: Freaking good. That's going to be fun. That's good. I love Jason. I love all those guys. That's a good crew. That'll be fun. We'll have--
[00:08:54.90] CHRISTEN KELLEY: So he put-- and it was funny because when he came to you and said, hey, I want you to moderate, it was having you moderate a panel. And I think he's changed the name of it. It's not around specifically CFOs, but it's around people that are leading technology at their companies.
[00:09:08.59] And I know that you're an InsurTech startup, but I don't think of you as someone who's like fully in development and engineering. So I'm actually looking forward to seeing you kind of lead this more tech forward panel in front of these Indietech-- the Indietech audience.
[00:09:29.36] REID HOLZWORTH: I don't get what you're saying, though. Because they're like much more technical.
[00:09:34.06] CHRISTEN KELLEY: With CFO, like they don't-- I think they're thinking more about like the coding of things. And whereas you-- we've talked about this this morning-- you're thinking more about how things are going to impact the way you work, how you work with people. So I think it'll be good. I think you'll be able to help non-techies understand what the panel is discussing.
[00:09:57.43] REID HOLZWORTH: Ah, OK. I got you. All right. Yeah. That'll be fun. That'll be fun. I know enough to be dangerous. I can speak their speak, understand what they're talking about. I'm no Pat Forgione, but I--
[00:10:11.90] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Who is. Who is.
[00:10:12.94] [LAUGHTER]
[00:10:18.44] But you will have to get him on a panel somewhere.
[00:10:21.36] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, I know, right? Yeah, he needs to get on panels, more panels. More panels, more better. Yeah, that'll be a good-- that was fun last year. It's same place?
[00:10:33.58] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah. Going back to Indietech in Indianapolis.
[00:10:38.55] REID HOLZWORTH: Indietech in Indianapolis. Cass moved, though. He moved to Florida.
[00:10:42.79] CHRISTEN KELLEY: He's in Florida. Yeah.
[00:10:43.86] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. But I like what he's doing with it. It's smart. I like the brand and all of it. It's good. And that's Cass's event. So good for him. He's been an industry guy for a long time. I love that dude. Him and I have had-- we've had a lot of late nights and a lot of good laughs, I'll put it that way.
[00:11:03.93] And yeah, we've had a lot of fun together. But yeah, we're good dudes. Cares about the industry. We just had him on the podcast. And I didn't know-- he does a lot for people. He's just a good human in that way.
[00:11:17.41] And it's like, some people, as you know, they're like, I'm doing this good thing. So like, look at me, I'm a good person. Like, blah, blah. It's not. He actually cares. He's a good dude. And so I didn't know that side of him in that way. I always knew him, but not like that-- in that. So pretty sweet. Pretty sweet.
[00:11:36.23] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I think-- so kind of going off of-- veering off from the events, but to Jason's episode, I really like the way he talked about leadership. And it was about being a leader is bringing up others to be leaders. I love that. Like you said, it's just-- it shows the type of person he is. So that was cool.
[00:11:52.28] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, absolutely. His story was interesting too, overall. Yeah. We have similar backgrounds.
[00:11:59.01] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I was going to say the serial entrepreneur thing. You starting off young and him as well.
[00:12:04.73] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah.
[00:12:05.19] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Who knew how much you could make [INAUDIBLE]?
[00:12:07.88] [LAUGHS]
[00:12:11.27] REID HOLZWORTH: What are we doing after that? What's after Indietech?
[00:12:13.46] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah. So after Indietech--
[00:12:15.98] REID HOLZWORTH: This is not canned, by the way. This is a real conversation that we're having right now. I'm literally asking.
[00:12:22.14] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I'm literally looking at-- yeah. Well, and you're going to be like, what the fuck? Because I have so many things that are on your calendar you probably don't even know about. So then you go to the council's ILC event.
[00:12:33.88] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, CIAB?
[00:12:35.79] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah.
[00:12:36.05] REID HOLZWORTH: When is that?
[00:12:37.00] CHRISTEN KELLEY: That is the October 6 through the 8th. Why do they have it on a weekend? I still don't understand why executives want to meet on a weekend.
[00:12:45.39] REID HOLZWORTH: FMLA, yeah.
[00:12:48.48] CHRISTEN KELLEY: But you do like that event. You do--
[00:12:50.34] REID HOLZWORTH: So that is-- that's the-- I don't know how-- let me try to think of how I'd explain that event, for those that don't know what that event is. That's the biggest-- the largest collection of C-level folks within the industry. I guess that's the way to put it. Like, it's all the C-suites of the carriers of large brokers.
[00:13:14.29] It's very expensive to get in. It's like some ludicrous number, like $25,000 a person or something. I'm sure one of them is listening to this, and they're like, that's not what it is, Reid, initial package, and like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I get all that. But it's like 25,000 a person. But it's very expensive. It's very exclusive.
[00:13:34.56] It's not as buttoned up as it used to be. It used to be like black tie, you're not messing around. Now it's pretty casual in that way. But you want to get in front of the right people at the heads of these companies. Not to say that they still have to take the meeting with you, of course, but they are all there. Everybody is there.
[00:13:56.50] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Well, you said meetings. The way that it's been-- I've never been. But the way that it's been described, it's like meeting upon meeting, right?
[00:14:02.92] REID HOLZWORTH: It's speed dating. Everybody calls it speed dating. It's like literally 20-minute meetings all day. 20, 30 minutes at the max. And you're just like, blah, rapid fire, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Next, next, next.
[00:14:14.96] And it's crazy because there's so many meetings that you have to stack them right. You've got to think too. Like, Oh, wait, this person's going to be here. If this meeting goes over, the next people are showing up, that's a competitor. You don't want them crossing paths in that way. So it's kind of a monster in its own way. But really, really powerful in just spending time with the right people, I'll just say.
[00:14:45.16] And I've met some people that I wouldn't have met elsewhere. It's just hard to get in front of people like that. And so that's a grind over the weekend. Lot of, lot of meetings. But that'll be fun. That'll be good. The whole team is going to be there. Taylor is going to be there. Purdy is going to be there. I think Graham's coming too.
[00:15:08.84] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I think so.
[00:15:09.76] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, Eddie's going to be there. Yeah, it's going to be good. Yeah. So then what? OK, then what? What's next after that?
[00:15:19.09] CHRISTEN KELLEY: ITC.
[00:15:20.80] REID HOLZWORTH: ITC. There it is. What's the date of that one?
[00:15:24.16] CHRISTEN KELLEY: So that one is October 15 through October 18.
[00:15:29.13] REID HOLZWORTH: October 15, yeah.
[00:15:29.73] CHRISTEN KELLEY: In Vegas.
[00:15:31.46] REID HOLZWORTH: Vegas, we're back, baby. Yeah. Is that the only Vegas thing I have coming up?
[00:15:38.80] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I think so.
[00:15:39.51] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Well, ITC, if you don't know what ITC is, you probably shouldn't be listening to this podcast.
[00:15:47.67] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I was going to say you shouldn't be in this industry.
[00:15:49.85] [LAUGHTER]
[00:15:53.94] REID HOLZWORTH: So it's actually a question. And you might know this. Is ITC still the largest event in insurance like technology? It was. Is it still the largest, like by attendance?
[00:16:04.93] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I would think so. I have not heard of anything else being in the 10,000 person range. But one that we skipped over because you're not going to it, but we're as a company going to it, that's kind of creeping up on the heels of ITC is the Wholesalers and Specialty Insurance, WSIA, their marketplace conference. They have--
[00:16:30.87] REID HOLZWORTH: What's the date of that?
[00:16:32.07] CHRISTEN KELLEY: --7,500 going. So it's the 22nd through the 25th. So it's actually right before Indietech. But our team is attending. And it's kind of all over the place. So you do have brokers, but it is more of like the VP of commercial lines or the VP of underwriting in all of these specialty markets.
[00:16:52.25] REID HOLZWORTH: So do you think it's getting close to ITC or it's bigger than attendance-wise? Really?
[00:16:56.03] CHRISTEN KELLEY: No, it's not bigger in attendance-wise. But it's 7,500. So I would say it's probably second in terms of how many people. And you said speed dating, it's similar to that. They don't have a trade show.
[00:17:09.86] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, really?
[00:17:10.67] CHRISTEN KELLEY: You just-- we're sponsoring a table. And people just come to our table. We're one of like 100 and something tables. And so I think it's good that we're there, because people don't think about us being in that ENS specialty space.
[00:17:24.41] REID HOLZWORTH: We've been going to that event for a few years now, no?
[00:17:27.34] CHRISTEN KELLEY: We've been going in their InsurTech event, which is more of a trade show. This is more of a meeting and focusing in on the executives, like you were saying.
[00:17:36.31] REID HOLZWORTH: OK. OK. Hey, for everybody that doesn't know, guess what? We're going after that market at Ivans 100%. Our sales team is calling in, doing it. And we've actually already sold and onboarded a few of those guys.
[00:17:51.98] So that's a market that's a little bit untapped for us. So we are 100% focused on it. And that's why we're doing the table and sponsorship and this, that, and the other. It's really, as you all know, it's really important to our industry. In this hard market that's been, I don't have to tell you, you guys. It's been growing like fricking crazy.
[00:18:17.96] And so that said, we're hearing a lot from all of our agency partners and everybody out there on the Applied side, as well Vertafore and Hawksoft side or whatever. Just agency partners generally that, hey, they need more connectivity around that. And so--
[00:18:34.85] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah, we just completed our 2024 connectivity survey, which over 1,000 agencies submitted answers to. And 80-- and I'm going to mess up the stat. But I'll fact check myself afterwards. But it was over 80% of agents said yes, they want the same amount of connectivity coming in from their ENS markets as they do their traditional admitted markets, so.
[00:19:00.43] REID HOLZWORTH: It makes sense, kind of like, duh. But it's good that it backs it up. It just shows that they all are very--
[00:19:07.66] CHRISTEN KELLEY: You don't want two different workflows.
[00:19:09.25] REID HOLZWORTH: That's right. That's right. Yeah.
[00:19:13.54] CHRISTEN KELLEY: So yeah, ITC should be interesting this year because our family of brands, as you were saying, has gotten bigger. So we'll have Planck.
[00:19:21.53] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. That's the big one. Because Planck-- and Planck made a big investment in ITC. I'm going to be honest with everybody. We have not at Ivans made a big investment in ITC.
[00:19:37.81] And frankly, for me, I haven't really seen the value for us at Ivans, because in a way, sure, there's a bunch of our carrier partners who're there, and we spend a ton of time meeting with them and doing all of that. But it's not like we need to go and get new customers in that respect.
[00:20:00.07] We know we have great brand recognition and whatnot, so it just hasn't really made a lot of sense for us to sponsor in that way. Because we don't really need to get our name out, if you will. But Planck has. And that's a place where a lot of startups go. And they get their name out there.
[00:20:17.84] They're talking to VCs, private equity, venture debt, all those guys are there. Guys and girls. And then it's a place where people go to talk about kind of the newer things that they're doing. But a lot of it is promotional, I'll say. It feels promotional. I just speak the truth here.
[00:20:39.71] And so yeah. But it's, again, all your friends and family are going to be there. Everybody's going to be there. It's a big event. There's lots to do. And they have great sessions, no doubt about it. But yeah, because of the Planck acquisition, we're kind of I guess doing a lot more for ITC this year. That's that.
[00:21:05.30] CHRISTEN KELLEY: And we added-- we did it last year, which I think was a really good thing. We have our-- our partner meeting will be there.
[00:21:14.25] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. But we didn't do a booth, though, last year or anything.
[00:21:16.64] CHRISTEN KELLEY: No.
[00:21:17.38] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, right.
[00:21:18.19] CHRISTEN KELLEY: No, we will have a meeting space. Because, like you said, it's about-- yeah, it's just about the brand and more about our customer and partner relations. So yeah. But Rob will be meeting with all of our partners and doing the kind of state of the union for them.
[00:21:34.94] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. Is he doing for all the agency management system partners? He's doing that meeting? What's that meeting called, and I forget?
[00:21:41.81] CHRISTEN KELLEY: The AMS summit.
[00:21:42.99] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, the AMS summit. Yeah, that's always good. So Rob Marinello runs partnerships here at Ivans. Rob's awesome from Boston. He does the AMS summit, where he gets all the AMS partners together. So you name it, they're all there.
[00:21:59.54] It's sitting in a room together, and we talk about everything that we're doing at Ivans, and what are the things that we could do better together. And so-- That was Rob's-- he came up with that. And Rob's fairly newer to the organization. That's a new muscle for Ivans. Because I think we brought Rob two years ago or so. So that's been really good, really successful.
[00:22:19.11] And it's really opened up the lines of communication between competitors really on like, guys, let's stop being silent about the things that kind of suck. That what are things that we could do together to solve problems for all of us? Because it's not, if you're experiencing the same thing, it doesn't give us a competitive edge if we're all dealing with the same crap.
[00:22:43.65] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Exactly.
[00:22:44.98] REID HOLZWORTH: So it's been good. It's really good. And that's a great venue. And I'm sure we'll have after party after it and all of that.
[00:22:53.07] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah, we're actually sponsoring a happy hour this year.
[00:22:55.99] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, nice. Nice. I did hear that. It's at, like, Prohibition bar?
[00:22:59.33] CHRISTEN KELLEY: It is at Prohibition. Everybody said that was like their favorite place for happy hour last year. So we went in, and we're going to do two hours bringing in clients, partners. All--
[00:23:13.72] REID HOLZWORTH: Is that the one where you like walk through the big main bar, and then you go to a back room bar?
[00:23:19.42] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I believe so. I have not been.
[00:23:21.64] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, OK.
[00:23:22.40] CHRISTEN KELLEY: But yes. It's a speakeasy type of setup. Yeah.
[00:23:26.35] REID HOLZWORTH: That'll be fun. That'll be awesome.
[00:23:28.66] CHRISTEN KELLEY: So you were talking about Rob with the AMS summit. I also think on the other side, our partnerships with policy administration systems has gotten a lot stronger with that partnership muscle with what he's been working on. And so to kind of end the year, our last big one will be Guidewire.
[00:23:48.14] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, yeah. Nice.
[00:23:49.36] CHRISTEN KELLEY: And we announced our new integration with them earlier this year. So I think this one will be--
[00:23:56.17] REID HOLZWORTH: Is it Guidewire? What's the name of it? Guidewire--
[00:23:58.12] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Connection. We're all Connect somehow, yeah.
[00:24:01.90] REID HOLZWORTH: I was like-- I was like, is it actually? Yeah, OK.
[00:24:05.16] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah, Guidewire Connections, IVANS Connect. Yeah, InsurTech Connect. They're all over the place. But apparently, you're going to be having some executive meetings, I think, at Guidewire. So I think this should be-- again, we've revamped our partnership. We're seeing a lot more interest.
[00:24:24.54] REID HOLZWORTH: Wait. Shout out to Rob once again. Rob coming in, really spending time with these large policy administration Systems. Guidewire, Duck Creek, Insurity, you name it. It's not just Guidewire. And really figuring out what is the better together with us and betting our technology into their systems, where impacting our roadmap here at Ivans for this type of stuff.
[00:24:55.44] So there's a lot of cool stuff that we've been working on with them. Yeah, so you'll hear more and more and more about that. But it just makes sense. It's like everybody's using these systems. Why not have the batteries included with some of the stuff that we're doing?
[00:25:10.23] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Well, and we talk about reducing data entry into the management system via Ivans download. You think about the other side, right? Like, we should be thinking about the same thing with the policy administration systems. Is there a way for us to reduce clicks and professional services engagements in order to just get the connectivity faster?
[00:25:33.71] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, it doesn't-- the job shop stuff only benefits the system integrators, the SI's that are out there. And so it doesn't help the industry, it doesn't help things move faster. Let's build technology that just works. And so people don't have to monkey around with it.
[00:25:51.06] And then because what happens with that is then people start to get cute, and they start building their own little flavors of things and stuff like that, which means that we as an industry end up having to maintain all of these one-off connections because they all have their little special flavor.
[00:26:10.67] And hey, I'm not going to name names, but Si's make a lot of money doing that kind of stuff. And we want to take food off of their table per se. But there are some core things that we can embed in these systems so they don't have to go through a lengthy implementation and just slow the whole process down.
[00:26:29.49] People can start to leverage the technology and then use the technology to the fullest in other ways, not booking hours for services. And for us, we don't like that work. That's not what any of us likes to do.
[00:26:43.58] CHRISTEN KELLEY: So we talked about a little bit. It kept coming up. But we haven't really taken it head on is the Planck acquisition. So I wanted to talk to you, because as part of the Applied executive team, you were there from the very beginning, before I even knew any of this was happening. Full disclosure, at InsurTech Boston, I had no idea.
[00:27:05.55] [LAUGHTER]
[00:27:10.59] But I guess, what are your overall thoughts on the acquisition?
[00:27:17.24] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. Well, that's a long one. So, yes, I was fully involved in that. I knew, I've known Elad for a bit. Not a long time, but I've known him for a bit. Definitely spent a lot of time in the Salesforce ecosystem. So I know a lot about Einstein and what that was and that whole history and that story.
[00:27:41.76] And I actually even had a guy that worked for me a number of years ago at TechCanary that was our enterprise sales rep for Einstein. He was a sales guy that we hired for a while. And so I know a lot-- I knew a lot about what that was, all that said.
[00:28:01.56] It started with these guys are building really cool shit on the carrier side. And the team and the people are some of the best engineers, AI engineers in the world. Like there's no bullshit, people, look it up. Look up the team, OK? They're animals. Elad is an animal in and of himself.
[00:28:28.81] And so it's like, hey, these guys are building really cool stuff in our space for carriers. And hey, what are we doing with AI overall broadly at Applied? Now, Applied has really invested in AI. Maybe two years ago or so-- maybe it wasn't that long, whatever, year or two ago, they put together a full AI team. And we still have a full AI team. They're releasing stuff on the EZLynx side and the Epic side.
[00:29:02.49] So things have been happening internally on that, but it's like, what is our long-term vision? And do we have the best leadership to bring that all to reality in the future? And so once we started digging in, we realized very quickly, and this is something that I kind of always have talked about, but-- so it's kind of like, duh.
[00:29:32.91] But when you start to look at this product that what they've built, which they call the Underwriter Workbench. It's probably going to get rebranded, just a FYI. And more to come on all of that. But the product that they have in market today is a great product not only for the carriers but for the agencies.
[00:29:55.79] So it's like, hey, when we build something for a carrier, and it's built on this insurance data model, isn't that the same for the agency? And wouldn't the agency interact with that potentially first before the carrier hits it or touches it?
[00:30:18.51] And so the answer is yes. And so it became-- the Planck acquisition, in my opinion, is just-- it's a shot in the arm for Applied. It's taking everything that we've been doing, everything that Applied's been doing as an organization.
[00:30:39.79] Think of we'll call it Ivans transformation. Think of Epic transformation. Think of all the hard work that we've all been doing to bring the companies, if you will, up to a modern stack. It's taking that, and now it's going, hey, what can we really do, one, with this product, first and foremost. Like, hey, we bought a product, brought a great team. Let's take that, and let's bring that to market the way that it needs to be brought to market, first and foremost.
[00:31:17.05] But then with the team, what's next? What can we do? That gets very entrepreneurial. And I love that stuff. It gets very white boardy, sticky note kind of stuff and all that. And we've done a lot of that. We did a lot of that during due diligence and even now.
[00:31:37.03] And there is a lot of real opportunity to do some stuff there. And it's the right team to get it done. And this is not like, we hired three people and-- this is 50-plus AI engineers. This is you can launch a rocket to the moon kind of thing.
[00:32:02.98] And so for me, it's just like, Applied as an organization, you're not stopping that rocket ship now. No way, Jose. No way. And that is-- and not to mention, through all the transformational work that Applied's done, technically speaking, all of the humans, the people that Applied has brought into the organization, hitters, real hitters. Like legit folks. It's a different animal.
[00:32:42.89] And then this is-- like I said, this is just a shot in the arm. And so right now, I guess the way to put the Planck acquisition is right now we're earning the right to do some really cool shit in the future. And I'm excited about it. I love Elad. I love the team. They've got awesome people. Sarah, who's running their go to market, she's now on the Ivans team. it's really, really cool.
[00:33:15.74] And just embedding those humans into this organization-- and I'll say it's funny, because I might have said this the other day. Somebody said this to me the other day. Like, look, Applied's just going out there and gobbling up all the good companies. Man! And I'm like, yeah, dumbass. So? Is that a bad thing? Why is that bad? Tell me, people. Send me the notes. Come, trolls. Please, come. Please come, trolls. Why is that a bad thing?
[00:33:45.09] Here's the thing. When we Appli-- when an Applied acquires organizations, they're bringing the people and embedding those people into our organization. They're not buying a business to shut it down or fire everybody or whatnot. This is a big part of it. This has become the DNA of what Applied is.
[00:34:09.60] Look at it. Look at who runs-- our head of dev, literally at our global Applied, through acquisition. You have guys like Rogov, who's now running commercial lines. You have guys that are in the sales org, at a big level that are from the SEMCAT acquisition.
[00:34:27.77] You have like myself. And it's funny. And so--
[00:34:31.33] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Me, too.
[00:34:32.51] REID HOLZWORTH: My whole-- oh, yeah, you came through an acquisition. I forget that. And so it's like, yeah, guys, just like Salesforce acquired a shit ton of really good companies back in the day. Elad's business being one of them, when he went on to go and build Einstein from that, literally.
[00:34:56.52] And so it's not a bad thing. It's a really great thing. And I look at it not from the pencil pushing spreadsheet kind of mindset, of like, oh, it's a good investment. And it's going to really pay off. [INAUDIBLE] not that. It's the humans that you're bringing into your organization that help influence the rest of the organization. And you're infusing that blood of those people into it.
[00:35:25.62] Now, I'll tell you this. Prior to TechCanary, I mean like in a very light weight. But I've never dealt with integrating businesses into an organization. And I've been heavily involved in these acquisitions that we've done here, all of them. Like, to some degree, all of them here at Applied over the last five years.
[00:35:46.20] I will tell you, it is not easy. It is not easy bringing those people in and doing all of that. So don't get me wrong, it's not like a cakewalk. We just bring in the people, and it's all good. But once you do. And once everybody gets settled, it's magic. And I think that that's what's happening.
[00:36:02.64] And I know it sounds like so self-promotional. I don't mean it to be. It's just another animal compared to what it was five, six years ago. It really is. And this is just-- it's just awesome. It really is. It really, really is awesome.
[00:36:20.43] And then I'll say too, our board, they are so bought in. They're like, what do you guys want to do? What do you want to spend money on? Let's do this. And so I think it's a rare thing. It's a rare thing. I'm excited about it. I'm excited to be a part of it, honestly. It's really cool. Really, really cool.
[00:36:43.20] So super long winded, sorry. But I don't know if went on a tangent there. And I told you it was going to be long when you asked me this question. But yeah, that's the answer.
[00:36:53.70] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I do agree with you, though, that the acquisitions, you bring in these entrepreneurs, you also bring in the staff that are used to working in a startup environment. And you bring them in. And it is, it's changing the culture of something that was very Midwestern. Go into work in your cube to--
[00:37:18.70] REID HOLZWORTH: A modern technology company.
[00:37:20.54] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah, a modern technology company. Yeah.
[00:37:24.57] REID HOLZWORTH: 100%. And I'll just say. It's not just one people, it's a lot of people.
[00:37:32.07] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Absolutely.
[00:37:32.45] REID HOLZWORTH: But I'll tell you what, Frickin Taylor, he's done a great job. He's done a great job. And Graham is doing a really great job, too. There's many other people that are doing amazing things, too. Don't get me wrong. Everybody don't get mad at me. But I think it's a good place. It's a good place to be. No doubt.
[00:37:53.37] CHRISTEN KELLEY: So I think talking about Taylor and others kind of leading the charge, leadership has been a big topic that you and I have been taking on with the interviews that have been happening in the recent months.
[00:38:07.26] And I think it was a good way for us to, yes, we're still talking about insurance technology, but to broaden not only our audience, but also just where these stories could go when we were having discussions. So I didn't know if you had anything that kind of stuck out in your mind of some of these leadership discussions that you've had? I have a couple, if you don't have any off the top of your head.
[00:38:33.20] REID HOLZWORTH: I don't know. The one that sticks out first and foremost for me was Dr. Doug Brackmann and Driven. And I'll just say-- I think I said it in the episode, I read his book a while ago. My buddy's like, dude, you got to read this book. And I read it. And it was so wild because it like broke down literally how I think and how I react to things. And I'm like, what is happening?
[00:38:58.31] And it is. It's very, very interesting. And it's really good insight overall on just understanding the drivens, if you will, in that. Now, I'll be honest, I don't live by that. I don't have a poster on my wall where I'm like following the--
[00:39:18.99] CHRISTEN KELLEY: There's no inspirational posters in your office?
[00:39:21.75] REID HOLZWORTH: No, it's not like that. But it is really good. And it's so true. I think there was just a lot, a lot of great messages within that episode. I think we've had a lot of amazing, amazing leaders on this podcast.
[00:39:42.19] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah.
[00:39:44.68] REID HOLZWORTH: They are all so good in so many ways. And I love that we started asking those questions and getting that. And you just-- it's so interesting to see how other people tick when it comes to leadership. And how they are-- and even myself, we all have different styles, and we're all different in so many ways. But yeah, I hate to say it, and it sounds self-promotional, but I think one of the best ones was Taylor's.
[00:40:21.48] Taylor Rhodes, the guy is a freaking born leader for real. I'm not just saying that because whatever, and we're friends and all of that, I'm not like. But you listen to that, it's another level. And so very inspiring in that way. And yeah, I thought that's been good.
[00:40:43.60] And I've also liked how we change it up a bit too, asking people how they're giving back. That's been an interesting door to open with people. Some of them are really, really interesting.
[00:40:59.53] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Like Luke's?
[00:41:00.65] REID HOLZWORTH: That's just what I was going to say. Like Luke's, yeah.
[00:41:03.09] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Which is-- and it's an awesome thing. But yeah, we would never have known that about them. And usually, people that are truly giving back, they're very humble about it. So it's not like they're going to sit there and promote it. But really focusing in on people that-- the neurodiverse community and bringing them into insurance is just, it's an amazing thing to be doing. And so that was exciting to talk about.
[00:41:22.62] REID HOLZWORTH: That was super, super, super cool. Yeah, the other one-- the other thing too is like we tried to add-- just getting into people's personal stuff. Like, what are some difficult situations that you had to deal with? We've had some stuff where people have said some things on this podcast that they've never said in public.
[00:41:43.48] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Ryan?
[00:41:44.64] REID HOLZWORTH: 100%. I was like, holy shit. And I'm not going to get into all that, but that's awesome. That is so powerful. And I don't know, that's just a gift. That's a gift that I feel like I'm receiving in that moment. And thank you for all the guests for being vulnerable in that way. And that's not easy. That is not easy.
[00:42:13.22] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I think it has to do with the way that you do the podcast as well. I've gotten feedback, and I think Jason actually wrote it. Is that your podcast, you handle as if you're just having a conversation. And so it makes people feel very open.
[00:42:27.62] REID HOLZWORTH: Isn't that what it is?
[00:42:28.93] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Well, there are some that are very scripted, though, right? And you have to stay on the script. And so I think that it made for our guests-- Ryan talking about his schooling, or Pat coming out-- that coming out to his family. Like just things that had nothing to do with us talking about your insurance technology startup.
[00:42:50.54] But it really is something that I think sets us apart, is that we're just as interested in you as a person, and it's not just about the company or the position that you have within the industry.
[00:43:06.94] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. I hope people like it, honestly. It's just my style. I like to get to know people for who they actually are. Not like what's on the surface and-- like who is this person? That's why it's like, what music did you listen to? What car did you drive?
[00:43:29.06] What's the image-- and maybe I shouldn't-- maybe that's judgment or something. I don't really give a fuck. But like, what is the image of this personal to me? How do I-- you know what I mean? What have they been through? What makes them tick? And then it's, how do they show up because of that, because of their background and that?
[00:43:49.13] And then it's-- originally when we started doing this, it was a little bit more geeky. Like a little more techie, like really getting in the weeds. Which is cool, but there was a time where it just got kind of flat. And I was kind of over it. I'm like, I'm so tired of talking about the same shit that we're always trying to overcome in this industry.
[00:44:09.38] And so it's like, let's learn about the people that are leading this industry. And I think that that's more of what it's becoming. I don't know. People don't like-- I don't read the stuff where people are like-- comments like, hey, you should be doing this, or you shouldn't do that, whatever, whatever. Only the funny bad ones that you send me every once in a while.
[00:44:30.87] But I don't know, I hope that resonates. I hope that people like it, I guess is my point. If not, tell us. Like, dude, we don't really care, OK? But I think I care. And I think that it's a forum for people to tell the world who they actually are, and what they've been through, and things they've overcome. And now they're crushing it.
[00:44:55.41] The people that we have on this podcast are not dopes. That's a big thing. We get requests all the time from people, all the time. I had people that come up to me multiple times at conferences, and multiple times, people. And they're like, hey, Reid, when am I going to get on your podcast? And I'm like, nah, not going to happen, dude. Sorry, man.
[00:45:14.85] And I hate to be a dick, but you're just not there yet. Like, sorry.
[00:45:18.48] CHRISTEN KELLEY: At the same time, this is not-- this is not our day job either, right? So it's not like we're just doing podcast interviews every single day.
[00:45:25.97] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. No, this is-- yeah, I don't know how that becomes a day job. I have a real good buddy who's got like a legit-- hundreds of thousands of listeners. And it's not his day job.
[00:45:36.41] CHRISTEN KELLEY: It's not an insurance technology, though, Reid.
[00:45:38.18] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, no. I Know. But it could not be his day job. It's just not there. He's not Rogan. But anyways, I'll stop on that.
[00:45:47.78] CHRISTEN KELLEY: He is Joe.
[00:45:50.28] REID HOLZWORTH: He is Joe. Yes, this is true. This is true. Joe won the spear fishing tournament, by the way.
[00:45:55.61] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Oh, that's awesome.
[00:45:56.39] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah.
[00:45:58.14] CHRISTEN KELLEY: So why we started this was insurance technology. And at the time-- so I'm looking at-- so we started this, we said three years. So I'm looking at investment in InsurTech in 2021.
[00:46:11.09] REID HOLZWORTH: 13 billion.
[00:46:12.23] CHRISTEN KELLEY: 13 billion. And now--
[00:46:14.41] REID HOLZWORTH: In '21?
[00:46:15.39] CHRISTEN KELLEY: '21.
[00:46:15.67] REID HOLZWORTH: In '21?
[00:46:16.53] CHRISTEN KELLEY: '21.
[00:46:16.82] REID HOLZWORTH: OK.
[00:46:18.08] CHRISTEN KELLEY: And now, we're at 900 million.
[00:46:22.80] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, shit! Damn! For real? Wow!
[00:46:30.01] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah. And I love that the executive summary says that total investment has drastically declined since peaking in 2021. That's like the opposite of up and to the right.
[00:46:47.61] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. No, that's pretty gnarly in a bad way. Yeah. Wow. Wow. What are your thoughts on that, Christen?
[00:46:59.00] CHRISTEN KELLEY: The first thing that I was going to say is that all of the things that you said about what Applied does, it almost highlights that if you are in a small startup, that most likely, your success is going to come out of being part of something that is a bigger player in the industry because the venture capital, the investment is dropping out.
[00:47:29.03] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. I think-- there's been a lot of solutions out there that have been created based on the inefficiencies of the large platforms that are out there. As the large platforms continue to get better and better and better, platforms being AMS, policy administration systems, all the above, OK? I'm not singling out anybody here.
[00:47:55.49] As they get better, you don't need those ancillary bolt-on kind of things. And I think there was a time where things were way overinflated because they thought that that had so much runway that was out there. And it just, it's not the same.
[00:48:15.89] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I also think, too, you said something. You just said bolt-on. There's nothing that was ever-- well, yes, the word legacy and all of the bad things that we talk about with AMS and policy administration systems, it wasn't a replacement.
[00:48:32.23] So you still had to-- all of these things that were trying to help, you're still just adding additional stuff out to the outside. You're not really simplifying anything, you're making it more complex.
[00:48:43.78] REID HOLZWORTH: Yep. No, I agree. And a lot of that stuff has kind of gone away. If you think about the commercial lines comparative raters, go back two, three years. I was hearing like a new animal popping up out of the zoo.
[00:49:01.41] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Dude, you couldn't say the word rater in a commercial lines in the same sentence, and people would be like, no.
[00:49:05.89] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, I know. I will give this. Casey Kempton said it at-- she was at something. I saw her on a panel a few years ago. And she's like, I'm just going to say, I don't care. It's a rater, when she was at Chubb. And so I know. It was like totally, you cannot say that.
[00:49:23.42] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah. We weren't allowed to write it because people would freak out.
[00:49:26.58] REID HOLZWORTH: Hell no. No. I forget all the terms. All these people had creative terms for what it was, but it wasn't. But yeah, a lot of that stuff dried up. Why? I think that there's also-- there was also a lot of hype out there of like, get this, get that, get this, get that, buy this, buy this, buy that. On the agency side, for a lot of those little ancillary things, that didn't really come to fruition because it was just kind of like shiny object syndrome.
[00:49:59.24] And yeah, so then the money dried up. The development didn't continue because they couldn't afford to. And so a lot of that stuff is going away. And I said this like, I don't even know. We're riffing on something like a year or two ago. Maybe it was a year ago. I don't know. It was a while ago, when I was like, bring it on, people. Like, what are the new things that are coming out?
[00:50:22.41] CHRISTEN KELLEY: It was less than a year ago. Because it was after you went to ITC, and you walked the floor. And you were like, I don't see anything.
[00:50:27.71] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. Like, all right. OK, what's new, innovative, and cool that somebody hasn't already done? Or like, you're doing something so different, or is it just you're this animal, and now I'm that animal.
[00:50:45.48] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Its kinda like the survival of the fittest, too, though. That a lot of people were trying to solve the same problem. I feel like it was all distribution, simplifying the quoting process.
[00:51:01.30] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. Well, yeah. I don't know. A lot of the good stuff got acquired. And because it got acquired, it got embedded in these systems. And so therefore, that's it. Now, is that a bad thing, people? And like, ooh. No, it's not a bad thing. It's not.
[00:51:29.89] And if you're out there, and you have sort of something that is like that, and you are still fighting that battle, well, guess what? Put on your fricking boots and go build something better than what's out there. It's that simple. But don't try to do the same thing that everybody's doing and just try to tell people that, Oh, well, yeah, it's like the same but better. And just drop the price on it or something. That's just stupid.
[00:51:58.25] And I'll get off that. But there's a lot. I talk to a lot of startups, I talk to a lot of people. I'll tell you, the last few that I've talked to, I was just kind of like, dude. And I kind of felt bad about it. I'm like, this is-- this is not going to go anywhere. It really isn't. Because 1 2, 3, x, y, z, not to get into those specific use cases, but it's not. As an investor, I would not invest in that. Like, no. It's not a good end game.
[00:52:27.73] But before, you could flip it from one VC to another, to PE and run the alphabet, and do that whole song and dance. But yeah. So I wish there was more cool stuff out there coming out. But we're not-- I haven't really seen it. And that's why we're going from 13 billion, I think you said, down to 900 million.
[00:52:50.40] And by the way too, I get a lot of calls from private equity people. Like, people I know, I'll call them industry, PEs and VCs. And they're saying the same thing. They're like, hey, what else is out there? I'm like, what are you guys looking at? And there's not a lot. So. Anyways, I'll get off this tangent.
[00:53:09.64] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I hope we can find some. I'm looking forward to putting some more on stage at Insuretch Boston next year.
[00:53:12.96] REID HOLZWORTH: Bring it on. We'll bring you on the show, promote the hell out of it. Yeah. Hell yeah. Show us some cool shit. I'm in. We're all in. But some of the same branded differently, sorry, that isn't going to happen.
[00:53:31.00] It's got to be different and real. And you're actually gaining market share around it. Or it's something so different that it's just going to change the industry in this way. Maybe that's not out yet. That's OK too. But like, bring it to us. We'd love, we'd love to talk to you about it and promote it, for real. So yeah. That's all I got.
[00:53:53.89] CHRISTEN KELLEY: All right.
[00:53:54.76] REID HOLZWORTH: I'm over this call. I'm done with you. I'm just kidding.
[00:54:00.31] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Well, no, we covered a lot. We went through an hour. So we have lots to unpack.
[00:54:07.74] REID HOLZWORTH: It's going to be a good season. A lot of good stuff going on around that. So, hey, maybe through that, we'll find some new stuff to bring on the show.
[00:54:15.63] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. The next time you and I talk, we'll have to review all of your escapades at the events and see if there's anything new and exciting you found.
[00:54:25.12] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. All right.
[00:54:26.68] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Great.